Public Meeting 16 June 2026 Mosman Club – The fight to save HMAS Penguin & Angophora forest continues

The meeting was well attended. The main topic was the Sale of HMAS Penguin. The audience supported transferring HMAS Penguin to the Harbour Trust if Defence partially divests the site. This is also HPG’s position, which has been clearly articulated in many communications.

Transcription of the meeting

Jaimee Rogers

Thank you so much for all coming out here tonight. And to everyone that is watching along at home, we are live streaming this event so that anyone that couldn't come into the room, they're still able to submit questions because we will open up the floor at the end of the night. Welcome to the Headland Preservation Group and Mosman Parks and Bushlands.

And I do want to say a big thank you to this club, the Mosman Club and president, who's Councillor Roy Bendall, for hosting us this evening. I do have a few apologies. Our first one is our federal member, Zali Steggal. Tonight she's hosting a men's roundtable mental health forum. In saying that though Zali has sent along two representatives who are here at the front of the room, Nicole and Jill.

So if you have any questions, the ladies are here to assist with anything. We also have from Mosman Council Mayor Anne Marie Kimber. She's attending the Mosman Council climate meeting tonight, as is most of the Mosman Council other than Colleen Godsel who is speaking tonight and of course Roy bedroom. Now, tonight is really important because we need to show this labor government that Australia is not for sale.

And especially land should not be for sale when it hasn't had a proper public debate. Like a site of HMAS Penguin, it's got enormous historical and community significance and not only is it an attack on our heritage, the issue that I have is once this land is gone, it's gone. And there's nothing we can do once it's gone.

So we need to ensure that we can preserve this for future generations. I have two young boys and they're eight and six. And that's what motivates me to ensure that they also have this beautiful bushland, like what I've had access to rather than sell things for a short term gain. So tonight it's about having our voices heard and not backing down.

And it's interesting because Anthony Albanese even said himself back in 2021 that HMAS penguin is the jewel for the entire country. He even said, well, come on, we all know that he just changes his position, but he even said if governments get it wrong once, it disappears forever. They were his words in 2021.

And now look at what he's doing. So we have a wonderful lineup of speakers tonight, all from different backgrounds, all with the same goal and motivation to preserve HMAS Penguin. So let's get into it and we'll hold questions until the end where we will open up the floor. So anything that you have, you will be able to ask.

Let's start with the president of Headland Group, Preservation, Jill Lestrange.

Jill Lestrange

Thank you, Jamie, for inviting me to speak tonight. Yes, we're here to save HMAS Penguin. They tried to sell it off in 1988 and the community said no. They tried to sell it off again in 1996 and the community again said no. And here we are again being asked to surrender a treasured piece of this iconic Sydney Harbour to private developers.

We ask ourselves this time, why now? Why the sudden urgency to sell a national treasure? It's because defence needs money. It needs money to address critical capability gaps and to make our defence force fit for purpose. To do so, they intend to sell 67 defence sites to realise an estimate of net $1.8 billion.

A drop in the ocean when you have a defence budget of $59 billion. And that doesn't include AUKUSs. And what's their solution? Sell HMS Penguin? HMAS Penguin is not just land, it's living history. It's an ancient Angophora forest. Trees that were old before this nation was born. It is the habitat for the powerful owl and other vulnerable species.

It's on a wildlife corridor. It's a place of coastal bushland, of breathtaking rarity. It is the final piece of the jigsaw that completes 150 years of strategic military heritage at Middle Head. And this government wants to sell it. They want to sell it without consultation, without an ecological assessment, without due diligence and without even the basic courtesy to ask the Australian people what kind of government sells a national treasure to cover its own fiscal position?

What kind of government destroys the irreplaceable to fund the replaceable? And what kind of government looks at our grandchildren in the eye and says, we sold your birthright to pay our bills? This harbour belongs to all of us. The rich, the poor, the young, the old, those who were born here and those who have recently arrived.

Every week, Sydneysiders of every background flock to Middle Head Balmoral beach to enjoy what this fabulous harbour has to offer. They walk the Bondi to Manly Walk. They breathe the air. They stand in the bushland, they stand in the Angophora Forest and they swim at the crystal clear beaches. This is what makes Sydney Sydney even.

Minister Mariles has admitted the heritage values of these properties belong to the people of Australia. And yet, in the same breath, his government moves to hand those values to private developers. This is not policy. It's hypocrisy. It's desecration and betrayal. But we've been here before. And we've won before. In 1988, over 2,000 people gathered at Balmoral Oval and they said, not this land, not on our watch.

 And in 1996, the community fought to save Middle Head and the Sydney Harbour Federation Trust was established to protect this land from development. This was a bipartisan, historic and enduring legacy to the people of Australia. And this, as Jamiee just said, we have a Prime Minister who has spoken in the past about the importance of these harbour foreshore lands.

It was 2021 when Mr. Albanese said those words. That was only five years ago. Only five years ago. We need to persuade Mr. Albanese to hold true to that belief. We will not let him forget or deflect. But let's not also let our Prime Minister forget that it was labor stalwarts that have contributed to stopping these sales.

Before, it was Bob Carr, it was Jack Mundy, it was Tom Uren that stood up to save these former defence lands at Middle Head and George's Heights from housing development. And more recently, Paul Keating has spoken out to say gems like HMAS Penguin belong to the National Estate. Why is our Prime Minister not taking note of or listening to his labor colleagues?

Let us not also forget that it was Tony Abbott and John Howard who gifted the former defence lands in and around Sydney Harbour, including Middle Head, to the people of Australia, as a gift of 100 years of hero. These sites that have been occupied, that occupy our harbour foreshores, have been saved due to bipartisan support.

Let's forget politics. This is a national matter. It requires support across political lines. If you're wondering what you can do to assist in relation to this campaign, the Headland Preservation Group has a flyer with a QR code tonight. It's an open letter. It's addressed to our Prime Minister. It's addressed to the Minister for Finance, the Minister for Defence and the Minister for the Environment, and also our local member, Zali Stegall.

If you agree with the contents of the letter, please sign it. Frighteningly, the sale of the defence sites have begun today. And you may have read in the Financial Review that a site at Penrith has been sold for high rise apartments. There's no doubt the developers are circling and HMAS Penguin is under threat.

The trees cannot grow back in a generation, the heritage can't be bought back if it's sold, and the view from the headland cannot be restored once a developer's tower stands in its place. They tried in 1988. We won. They tried in 1996. We won again. And we will Win today.

Jaimee Rogers

Thank you, Jill. And it is worth noting the slides that you see coming up on the screen. Felicity Wilson, who is our state member, still has a petition that's running, so there's a QR code that you can scan and still fill in your details. And she will be passing on the information. But then also I've got the email addresses of our Environment Minister, Murray Watt, and our Defence Minister, Richard Miles.

I couldn't track down Albo's email address. All I could get was it links you to the parliamentary website. We need to hound these ministers with our concerns why we don't want this land sold. We cannot be quiet. And every time you post anything, just use the hashtag #SaveHmAspenguin so that all the photos, everything is linked together.

I would now like to bring up to the stage the woman who has been in charge of leading the Senate inquiry into the sale of the defence assets. And I must say, Senator Jess Collins. You have uncovered a few things amongst this inquiry that I have found quite interesting. But I will hand the stage over to you.

Senator Jess Collins

Well, isn't it a bit sad actually, to be back here again? I always love to see you all, but not under conditions like this. I feel like we're here under duress and having to save our HMAS Penguin. But I want to thank you all for turning out again tonight. There'll be some new faces, there'll be some same faces from the past few community events, but every single moment counts.

And we will not stop tonight either. I want to thank Jamiee Rogers for bringing this together. So many people that are working on this campaign, Jamiee, obviously on Sky, and you're doing a terrific job there. Thank you so much. Mosman Council has been a huge help to today, the past couple of months as well.

And I will be tonight reading out a message from Mayor Ann Marie Kimber, who couldn't make it here tonight with your indulgence. And I also want to thank my state colleagues as well. Felicity Wilson and Rachel Merton, MLC. Rachel actually put a private member's bill to the floor as well to try and stop this nonsense, but of course labor voted it down.

So here we are. And of course we have a very big guest in the audience tonight. Thank you very much, Tony Abbott, for being here. Now, We are very privileged to have you helping us. You are a heavyweight campaigner and you know, some of you in here may not have voted for him the last time he stood for election, but he will always stand up for you and he will fight to the very, very end on this.

So thank you very much for your help. So I will just read the message from there. Marianne Kimber, she said, Good evening, everyone. Firstly, please accept my sincere apologies for not being able to join you tonight. I'm currently committed to council business. I want to be clear, this issue matters deeply to me.

As you would have seen through my motions at council meetings, my attendance at community meetings and my direct engagement with ministers, I've been actively and strongly advocating on behalf of our community, on behalf of Mosman Council, our position is unequivocal. We will strongly oppose any sale or privatisation of HMAS Penguin. This is a unique and irreplaceable public asset and it must remain in public hands.

I stand with this community in protecting this land and its environmental, cultural and heritage values and I fully support continued advocacy to ensure it's not sold. Thank you for your ongoing passion and commitment and she looks forward to working alongside you. Now, to the inquiry. I have been fortunate to be chair of this inquiry and we have held a hearing in Canberra and we've done a site visit down here at HMAS Penguin, followed by a hearing as well.

And we also had a hearing here in a site visit down in Victoria. It doesn't end here. I'm just going to give you a run through of some of the things that I have uncovered through this inquiry. The first is that this, this fire sale is based on what they called an independent audit.

And we found out in the very first line of questioning at the hearing that it is neither independent or that the auditors are neither independent nor auditors. It's crazy, isn't it? The process was completely predetermined. Now, this government has been sitting on this audit report, let's call it an internal review, since December 2023.

They formed a transitional working group in early 2024. And then, of course, we had an election in May 2025. Now, did anybody hear anything about HMAS Penguin being sold off before the election? No.

So they lied to the Australian people. They didn't tell you that they were going to do this and they didn't tell you that they weren't auditors. They didn't tell you it wasn't a real audit, but they knew that they were staring down the barrel of not having any money for defence. So the whole premise, really, of this audit, of the sell off is to get more money and to get more land for houses.

And part of the evidence that they gave me was that Victoria Barrack Sydney had higher operating costs than Defence Plaza Sydney. Now Defence Plaza Sydney is a beautiful corporate building in the middle of Pitt Street. And the Assistant Secretary who has been overseeing the fire sale admitted that actually, yes, it has the best views in all of Sydney, right over the domain.

Isn't it wonderful? Yes. First time I saw her [name?] really smile, was when she talked about those wonderful views in Defence Plaza Sydney. And she maintained then that the operating costs of Victoria Barracks Sydney are higher than at Defence Plaza. And so they're going to move the 750 people from Victoria Barracks into this corporate building.

Well, at estimates just a few weeks ago I proved that that was incorrect, and they had to admit that. So there we go again. The government lying about why they're really doing this. What they want to do really is sell off our history, sell off our culture so they can rewrite it all in their own terms.

It's disgraceful. Now there is a base called RAAF Base Glenbrook that they're selling as well. And I found a contract for RAAF Base 2024. It's about $11 million that they had poured into upgrading RAAF Base after the same person who signed off on that $11 million, the same person signed off on selling RAAF Base. And they're trying to tell us that they're trying to save money in Defence and yet here they are making contradictory assessments and decisions on spending.

And of course if you're going to pour $11 million into a secure communications building, a bunker in the RAAF Base Glenbrook, of course you've made the decision that it is strategic enough to spend $11 million there. And so the argument that these bases are no longer strategic, of course also falls over. It's another lie.

Now 67 bases are being sold off, most of which or all of which, in fact, as we heard evidence last week, have a mess hall. They also have parade grounds. Now I asked at estimates how many mess halls, how many parade grounds, and they refused to give an answer on that. Now, if anybody has never really spent much time with Defence Force, these mess halls and parade grounds are the centre of the culture and tradition and the social element of being in the Defence Force.

It's where you gather as a family, and where all sorts of important business happens of course, including eating and drinking. The mess halls are actually owned by the regimental members and they haven't been consulted on any of this. Just like you good people, they haven't been consulted on any of this. And they're all being sold.

And when I asked them if we would get assurances as to whether any of these mess halls or any of these parade grounds would be saved from having a concrete block poured on top of them. They said I had to ask the Department of Finance, the Department of Defence would not give any assurance to its people that they would save these important places.

Now, we've also heard from a lot of veterans that are up in arms about this fire sale, that these parade grounds are not just places where you march out after your training, they are places of memorial. Traditionally, they're places where you lay your dead. We've had the ashes of veterans scattered over these parade grounds.

The veterans asked to be returned to their parade ground. Very, very special places. And we are staring down the barrel of apartment blocks being built on top of them. I also asked whether the Minister of Defence, Deputy Prime Minister had actually visited any of these bases. And I got a word salad. Now, of course, if he had visited, we would have had "yes, of course, he's been there many times."

But instead he's sending out his assistant Defence Minister to come and do information sessions, not consultation sessions. Anybody who would have been at that information session. They're still calling it consultation sessions, tried to set that record right at the estimates, but he told you that the decision to divest has already been made.

So what is the point of these information sessions, except for him to go out there and take a punch from all of you? Now, we've also heard that they plan to make $3 billion from the sale of all these sites, about $1.8 billion in net profit. But we have not seen any numbers on any of this.

They won't show us any of the numbers on any of this. But we heard from the sale. I think Penrith was looking at about $22 million from the sale today. So just imagine them licking their lips at that beautiful spot down at Mosman. That's what they see. That's what they see. And of course, in Glenbrook, median house price sale is $1.7 million.

That's what they see. They see it in terms of the housing prices. Now we have a few more hearings that are already booked in. One down in Tasmania, they're selling 15 of the 16 bases down there. They're going to absolutely fill cadets and reserves down there. We're also going back to Victoria, to Fort Queenscliff.

But in terms of the fight that we have before us here on HMAS Penguin, Senator James Paterson is running the petition. He's nearly at 50,000 signatures. We need to keep that going. We need to get a little bit more. I'M not going to tell you his website because you're all going to forget it.

But if you just Google Senator James Paterson and go to his website, you'll land straight on his petition. It's very, very easy to please support that. And soon enough, we are going to make an even louder noise. We're going to connect all these little campaigns, Lancer Barracks, Victoria Barracks Sydney, HMAS Penguin. Because the louder we can make a noise, the bigger the fight becomes and the easier it will become to make this weak government stand down.

That is exactly what we need to do.

Jaimee Rogers

Thank you very much. Thank you, Senator. And I know that during Senate estimates you also uncovered that $20 million was spent on legal fees and consultations in order to sell these defence assets. I know. Next to come up to the stage is Mosman Councillor Colleen Godsell.

Colleen Godsell

Thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight. I am here tonight not as a representative of Mosman Council or a representative of Scott Scouts Australia, even though I have served on their national council. I'm here tonight as a volunteer to the Mosman community for more than 40 years and to the Australian Scouting Movement for 30.

Tonight I'd like to talk about the tides of tomorrow. Why Scouts and veterans belong at HMAS Penguin. The story begins on the site in 1927 when there was a breakaway group that formed a troop from the 1st Mosman 1908 Scout Group down there at the Barn in Mosman Bay. Their numbers had reached 150 members and they were frequently sailing and engaging in watercraft activities from Balmoral.

So it made a lot of sense to approach council and lease a part of the foreshore and build a boat shed. And that happened in 1927 and that predates the Defence occupation of 1945 or thereabouts. 99 years of Scout occupation on the site, on and off, depending on the security levels of the day.

I first restored the boat shed in 2008. It had been abandoned for about 10 years. I went to see the then Commander Hickey, who could see what I could see, that it would be an amazing vision to bring together Scouts and the Royal Australian Navy on board that site. And that's what we set about doing.

I then had to restore the boat shed again post Covid in 2023. And Scouts enjoy it every day today. Australia is a maritime nation. It's defined by coastline line shaped by sea trade, defended by naval power and ecologically dependent on healthy ocean systems. Yet for a growing number of young Australians Particularly those from the lower income, through households or landlocked suburbs.

The ocean exists only as a postcard, not something to understand, protect or feel responsible for. This is why the presence of Scouts at HMAS Penguin and is not merely a pleasant arrangement. It is a matter of equity and national importance. For families without access to watercraft, the base harbour foreshore represents an irreplaceable point of entry.

No exclusive yacht club membership here, no private marina or inherited tinny. What there is instead is a structured, safe and purposeful environment where young people can approach the water on equal terms, learning not just to sail or row, but to read the sea, to respect it and to understand what lies beneath. There exists a quiet power in a defence environment.

There is something particular about the atmosphere of a naval base that is difficult to manufacture elsewhere. It is orderly without being oppressive. It is purposeful. For young scouts moving through that environment, something shifts. The defence community models a particular kind of belonging to something greater than yourself, maintained through discipline, trust and mutual accountability.

These are not exclusively military values. They are exactly the values that Scouting was to designed to cultivate at HMAS Penguin. The two traditions reinforce each other in ways that neither could achieve alone. Scouts who spend formative years at a naval base absorb almost by osmosis, an understanding of what marine maritime careers look like from the inside.

Possibilities become visible. Young people consider the sea as a workplace beyond defence. The harbour environment connects directly to careers in maritime biology, environmental science, maritime law and conservation management. Decisions about facilities and land use rarely account for the invisible value of long term community relationships. What Scouts bring to HMA Penguin and what the base gives back to them does not appear on a balance sheet.

It appears a decade later in the careers of people who grew up on that foreshore. In the conservation choices of adults who first care about the harbour as children. Removing that access or allowing it to erode through redevelopment would not only inconvenience a scouter group, it would close a door that for many families is the only door to the sea.

Scouts are not the only not for profit organisation that exists on HMAS Penguin currently. The Saltwater Veterans Sailing Project established there in November 2022. And tonight I speak for them as well. An organisation designed to support people and families navigating the challenges of military service, transition from defence, trauma, injury, illness and the loss of connection to community.

Healing begins, mateship grows and personal development occurs. Because the ocean for some people is a spiritual matter, the Saltwater Veteran Sailing Project depends on HMAS Penguin to exist. The base provides a facility for equipment storage accommodation for those traveling distances to join in and a sense of belonging. A registered charity that provides a pathway back into society for those that exit defence and struggle to re establish themselves.

In the past 12 months they have hosted 247 events registered 1,442 registrations 6,937 collective hours spent on the water. I congratulate the co founders, Jen and Scott Reynolds. I don't know if they're here tonight, I hope they are, for their efforts, they are outstanding Australians. The strength of a nation is built not only by those who serve it today, but by those who prepare to serve it tomorrow and those who continue to serve it long after their uniform is hung up.

Scouts represent the beginning of that journey. Saltwater veterans stand at the end. They ensure that those who have given so much in service to Australia continue to find belonging, challenge and support within our communities. Between them lies a powerful story of commitment, character and community. When we nurture the aspirations of our youth and honour the experience of our veterans, we create an unbroken chain of service that strengthens our community, safeguards our values and secures our future.

A nation is strongest when it invests in both. Ladies and gentlemen, join us in the battle to save HMAS Penguin, the Angophora Forest and the habitat of our endangered powered owls. I have had the great fortune in my lifetime to be mentored by the late, great Jack Mundy and if Jack was here right now, he would be declaring a green ban on this site and he would have me up at Bunnings picking up chain for the event when we would be chaining ourselves together at the front gate at the gang of HMAS Penguin.

Join us. You'll find me on the front line. Thank you.

Jaimee Rogers

Thank you, Colleen. It's time now to hear from two veterans and I will start withLieutenant Marcus Batten, who is from the Royal Australian Navy and in reserve and was in the Royal Navy, but also as a qualified clearance diver who trained and served at HMAS Penguin. I'd like to bring up to the stage Marcus Batten.

Marcus Batten 

Oh, yes, I was actually. Last month was my 44th anniversary of being sunk, so I was a gunnery officer on the Antelope. So this means a lot to me. Penguin retrained me when I came to Australia as a ship's diver again and I'd left it four years not doing anything with Navy and the joy of running around the Penguin hills down where the landing craft were parked and then swimming all the way back and was a morning session we did every morning just quickly, you know, military bases and I suppose long term sustainability are the foundation of nationhood.

And people don't really if they haven't been involved. Like we were lucky in some ways. We had through school we had Second World War veterans and Korean veterans took us through everything. But also at my grammar school in the UK we had French resistance fighters who were French teachers. So we were continually taught a sense of nationhood, sustainability.

The bases were there to form national identity. And when we 1st of April 1982, as an example, when we had no idea we were on a work up off Portland bill [?] in the UK and all of a sudden it was April 1st we were told we had to secure from that we'd done very well.

And we disappeared back to Portland and the harbour which was a landmark for us. That's where we grew up. And coming back in the dockyard workers had all been turned off. The military were there and we were told we were at war. So good old Maggie Thatcher sent us off and I'm glad we did what we did.

So nationhood and understanding. My uncle in the Second World War was part of 6th Highland Commander that helped form Yugoslavia. And I won't tell you some of the things when I came back they had an iconic base near Edinburgh Castle and they used to gather there for that iconic pull together. So with our troops and with our people after we send them into combat, you can't destroy the icons that are there, things to keep their mentality going for years thereafter and help teachers.

The teaching we had from those veterans and over here, obviously the younger guys now who've come back from Afghanistan come back from places, we need to give them a sense of community, a sense of belonging, a sense of the people wanting them rather than just administrative rubbish which we've seen happen down in Canberra and other places and civilian heads of defense who get paid more than the military head of defence.

And just admin, admin and admin. But no refocusing on the core constructs of the military. And those are from me in the Defence Force. I got questioned over here where I had to change my psych appraisal in the military in my naval thing where it asks you two questions. Why did you join? And what was your ambition?

And Owen shut me up. Why did you join? What was your ambition? I was a year younger than everyone else in my year and I put up to be an officer cadet in the Royal Navy. Ambition? Why did I join? To get in a fight. Second 

You've got to get fighters who want to come in. Over here my psych took me aside two and a half years ago, said you need to change those two answers. You need to put something nice like defending and being nicey nicey. And I said, well, if you want to actually win something, you don't want that because they won't fight.

And so there's a whole load of cultural stuff that they tried to get out of the defence forces and the Australian Defence Forces are way better than the British ones, although we were very good. But we've got to maintain those characters, we've got to maintain the original structure of morality and fighting spirit that the ANZACS had and the bases formed that culture and the bases need to be kept as a spirit of national patriotism.

And you know, I think there's some great videos about patriotism. If you're here, you want to be Australian, that's it, it doesn't matter where you come from. And you know, my, my wife's father, he was in the Australian Air Force and he used to always bring up all the bases and start for the…

He flew mosquitoes and stuff like that. So I've had a bit of you understanding the Air Force, although we used to make fun of them as navy people. And I think that sense of being a country, being a patriot and these icons form your model to train your spirits up to start with and then go out to war.

And that's what you go out to. You've got to be ready to go out to war. I remember my headmaster at grammar school had been a twice VC decorated patrol boat commander in the Mediterranean. His second 2IC had been Mountbatten's navigator, the head of French a resistance fighter. So we had all these characters and they brought together national patriotism.

But castles, buildings, ports, that I think in the UK the same thing, they're running the risk of losing some of those. We as people have to stand up and pull these things back away from the politicians, and they have to be part of our social and psychological infrastructure. So, yeah, I won't go on too much more, but let's go for it.

Jaimee Rogers

Two more talks for this evening and I would like to bring up to the stage Major Owen Eather, who some of you might have heard on 2GB today with Michael McLaren talking about his career and what it is like to serve in the Royal Army.

Owen Eather 

Before I start, I've left my notes at home, so I'm going to be winging it tonight. No comments from you, Tony. Before I go any further, it's great to see this great conclave here tonight. We've got to have more and we've got to keep it up. And I think we should, in the normal way, show our appreciation to Jamiee and the others who have organised this.

Now, Marcus was very modest. He was a gun position officer on one of the frigates in the Falkland Islands. Some of the stories he's told me have raised my hair and I've had a bit of experience in that way myself.

So, he's a very mild mannered chap normally, but don't let that in any way hide the fact that he is a veteran, true and proper, and he understands the demands and requirements of a veteran. Now, he allowed me to lead into the theme of my talk, all of the points that have been made about the importance of HMAS Penguin and from my point of view, also Victoria Barracks.

Just a sidebar on that. My family, one way and another, has had a continuous connection with Victoria Barracks since 1939 and probably with my father earlier than that. And my direct connection goes back to 1974 and still exists. They're the kind of invisible social links, these establishments, and that we're going to risk losing forever.

As Mark has quite properly put out now, they are defence establishments. So I thought it would be useful to come up with a one sentence role of the defence establishment in Australia that defence forces. A classmate of mine and I at a reunion debated this amongst ourselves a couple of years ago, before the effects of too many ports had muddled our mind and we came up with a one sentence description.

The role of the Australian Defence Force is to defend and protect and maintain the sovereignty of the Commonwealth Australia by the professional and expert application of lethal force. I stress this last. The Defence Force is not a social laboratory. It is not a place where there are useful disaster relief assets available when necessary.

Its main job is to train for that role, which I just said. Now, an individual coming into the defence forces goes to establishments such as Penguin, such as Victoria Barracks, and the discipline, tradition, spirit that are necessary and exist in the service that he's in are imbued in him even without him being aware of it.

And that's one of the greatest values of these places. Now, I'm going to talk about three individuals, if I may, as examples of that. The first is a Major George Constable. The second is a Lieutenant Commander Robert Rankin, and the third is a First Lieutenant Johnny Fraser. I'll come back to them in a minute, but they are the individuals that I felt would be the best example of why we should be fighting to save Penguin, Victoria Barracks and the other establishments that are now under threat.

I can't but think that this program is essentially aimed to gut the soul of the ADF. I may be wrong and that may be too extreme, but it does raise suspicions within me. Now, I looked at how you look at these establishments, first of all, their sacred ground of the ADF. I can use that term and I think it's appropriate.

And the way sacred ground is protected and basically genuflected to in other areas I think ought to be applied in what we're talking about here. Now what are these establishments? They have been gifted by the community to the individuals of the defence force that they serve. The community wishes those individuals to have the facilities at a sufficient level, disbursement and quality to be able to learn the skills, learn the discipline, learn the spirit that you need to maintain that role that I talked about.

Has anybody talked about the community which doesn't appear to be about those gifts? Are we going to sell them like a couple of bags of chips? You don't do that to family heirlooms, which is what these are, the community's heirlooms. If I can come back to those three pieces before as examples of individuals have been through establishments like that.

George Constable was the commander of the Army Aviation flight in Vietnam when I had arrived. He was my admin commander for a while while I was on the advanced party and until my main unit arrived. And he was a terrific officer. He had about two months left in his tour of Vietnam. Towards the end of it he got his thousand hours of flying which they wanted all of the pilots wanted to do.

And he had just found out that his wife had given birth to a young girl and he was going home in a couple of weeks time. And he was waiting for his replacement to arrive. He could quite easily and nobody would have blamed him for switching off and turning off just as I did polish my boots till the plane arrived.

There was a particular day when there was a very high sortie load and there was one task which was covering a convoy which they didn't have enough pilots to put in. Now there were two alternatives. If the flight didn't cover the convoy, the lives of those in the convoy were at greater danger.

By not having observation of dangers that might have been either side or ahead. To put a tired pilot in there created dangers of its own. And he decided he would fly that that particular sortie. He didn't come back.

Lieutenant Commander Robert Rankin, some of you may know, was the commander of the HMAS Yarra.

The Yarra was what was called a sloop, the Royal Navy, I think would call a corvette. It had a battery of 4 inch guns which are not bad, but they are small artillery in the naval sense. He was the only convoy escort for a convoy escaping from Java to North Australia from the Japanese.

They are under way, and a Japanese squadron appeared over the horizon. Three 8 inch gun cruisers, that's 168 inch guns, almost for him, an impossible target. Without thought, he scattered the convoy, ordered the the Yarra to go full steam ahead towards the enemy squadron. There was not one stint of disobedience in the crew.

They probably knew what their fate was. And it came. 151 men were on the crew. 13 were saved. One went down, was Rankin.

The last person is a National service officer, Johnny Fraser. He was an instructor at Jungle Training center when I was doing a course there and I kept in touch with him when he came back up, when he got to Vietnam.

He signed on for additional time so he could serve the country in Vietnam. He could have gone out and had and said "I've done my job". Taking his patrol on an operation through the Long Hai Hills which were a notorious minefield site. He trod on a mine and shattered both his legs.

His platoon tried to get help to him. He kept yelling "stay away". Until the blood loss prevented him from doing that and also prevented him from living. Now they're the people, these individuals that do that job that I spoke about and yet we're talking about taking away the basis for the psychological and spiritual motivation for them to do these kind of things.

All I can say is, we've talked about a fight here. You've got to keep taking the fight. Every one of you here tonight has got to send as many emails and letters to those people on the board there and keep it up. Combined with Victoria Barracks and and Lancer Barracks and I'd ask Tony that one of the planks of the government that any action taken is rescinded when you win government in the future.

Thank you very much.

Jaimee Rogers

Thank you. Major Owen Ether. Well, it's time now for our final speech of the night and certainly not the least of the speeches. I'd like to welcome up to the stage former Prime Minister Tony Abbott, who has saved his site from sale previously and also set up the Sydney Harbour Federation Trust.

So please welcome Tony Abbott.

Tony Abbott

Well, Jamie, it's wonderful to be back. It's wonderful to be in the heart of the community that I served for 25 years. And the first thing I should do is to say thank you to all of you. It was an honour to serve you. But for you, I would never have been a minister.

I would never have been a national leader. But it didn't matter what I was doing. I never forgot that, first and foremost, I was a local member. Of all the various things that I was involved in, nothing gives me more pride than the establishment of the Sydney Harbour Federation Trust to save forever this priceless built and natural heritage which has nourished the soul of this nation for so long.

Owen and Marcus, wonderful to hear from you. It is great to hear from the people who have worn our uniform and who have put their lives on the line for our country. And Owen, thank you for mentioning some of the people who have given their all for our country. When we disrespect and destroy the places that shaped them, we dishonour their memory.

But when we respect and preserve the places that shape them, something of their spirit lives in us. And that's our duty. To be true to the people who have shaped our nation, to be true to the best values, to be our best selves. Now, as Jill. And thank you, Jill, for the great work of the Headland Preservation Group.

We've seen this before, haven't we? Previous labor governments who unfortunately don't get tradition and heritage, they just don't get it, have tried to sell off these sacred sites before. And when I heard back in 1995 that the then Defence Minister, Senator Robert Ray, was intending to sell off the military land around Sydney Harbour that he thought was surplus to requirements, we mobilised the community and we won.

Well, we won then and we got to win again. We owe it to our nation to succeed. And it's interesting, isn't it, that when he was in opposition, our current prime minister thought that these places were too important to sell, well, yet again he's changed his mind. And frankly, yet again, he's betrayed bad character.

Well, can I tell you, this was a prime minister who didn't change his mind just when it was convenient to do so. And we've got to send a very strong message to the current government that if it was right, when you're in opposition, it's right to honour that commitment in government too. The idea that somehow we are going to advance our country by flogging off some 70 sites for $1.8 billion in a defence budget of $50 billion plus, and somehow we are going to improve the nation is just bizarre.

This idea that the armed forces of this country should somehow live off the land by selling the land that is currently theirs. It is just wrong. What will these people think of next? Sort of hiring out the Royal Australian Regiment as bouncers at a pub? I mean, honestly, they just. Just don't get it.

So I want to assure you that even though I'm no longer in the Parliament, I haven't forgotten the duty I have to the people I've served. And the idea that somehow this land ought to be sold off for low cost housing. I mean, please, please. We aren't that cheap. We really aren't that cheap.

This land should be preserved forever. Frankly, it should stay as a defence base because we need defence bases in this city. The idea that the greatest city in the country should be defenceless is bizarre. We need this land to stay in military hands. But if it doesn't, let it go to the Sydney Harbour Federation Trust and be preserved forever for the benefit of the Australian people.

No. No to selling this off. No. No to reusing it in ways which would not bring honour on this area. And I've got to say to you, I may be out of the Parliament, but I haven't forgotten the area that sustained me for 25 years. And I give you this commitment. If this government goes ahead with this shameful act, Jill and Colleen, I will be there.

In the best traditions of Jack Mundy. I remember Tom Uren being part of our campaign in the late 90s to save this land. I mean, Tom was supposed to be Anthony Albanese's great mentor. Well, I tell you, Tom would be rolling in his grave at what the current Prime Minister is proposing to do.

Let us link arms and stop this happening. Let us ensure that we defend forever the defenders of this great country.

Jaimee Rogers

So it is time to open the floor to some questions. Does anyone have a question for Tony Abbott first? And we've got Roving Mike, so if you want to pop your hand up and Jennifer and Roy will run around and grab you.

Audience question/statement

So, my name is Gavin Wright. I'm representing Warringah One Nation. One Nation has got a statement. And it is this: One Nation has no confidence in the Albanese labor government's fire sale of defence real estate, including HMAS Penguin. In many cases, it's evident the assets have been substantially undervalued, both in terms of commercial potential and their unique heritage.

HMAS Penguin was established in 1941 during the Second World War and has a distinguished heritage being the site of the Balmoral Navy Hospital for more than 60 years and housing numerous training facilities for seamanship, guiding, naval police and naval medicine. And this is the kicker. So one nation called on the Albanese Labour government to suspend the fire sale and increase defence spending.

Audience question/statement

Many of the speakers hinted at this and that was we owe it to the country to save Sydney Harbour for the rest of the country. And Mosman is the people here that will do it. Because once it's lost, there goes the native landscape and everything else. And we owe it to the rest of the country.

Tony Abbott

Look, so right, I mean I'm sure most of you have wandered around the Balmoral foreshores. You've certainly been through the Angophora Forest. This is too precious to lose. And as every speaker has said, once it's gone, it's gone forever. So let's not let down the future by letting it go now.

Question

I'd just like to say that we've heard a lot of talk tonight, but I haven't heard anything about any action apart from writing a few emails. What are we going to do about it? Time is of the element, as has been made very clear. You've been talking to the converted. Let's have some action.

Are we going to have marches? What about a campaign? What about the media? I've heard nothing tonight about that. And we've got something from the sky.

Tony Abbott

Well, look, this is a very important point and I think everyone in this room should steel themselves to a bit of direct action. If there is the kind of physical desecration which would be involved in the redevelopment of these sites. If needs be, we do have to form a human chain around there.

If needs be, we do have to block bulldozers, yes, use words until the decision is made, but if the wrong decision is made, make it impossible for them to go ahead. I mean, frankly, the people who have put on their uniform and put their lives at the risk deserve a bit of direct action from the rest of us that they have protected.

Audience question/statement

Congratulations everyone who got up and spoke tonight. I think it's admirable and fantastic what everyone said and collectively it's really wonderful. My only concern is that I'm not sure if what we're saying is actually going to move the needle that much in terms of making an impact. When I look around here, there's everyone here and we're preaching to the converted.

We all want to save this, but I don't think what we've done and have struck a chord in terms of really speaking to the community and making it known and getting this driven from the bottom up. We really. I think one of the great examples of a case study that we could look at is the Franklin River and that whole No Dams,  which is simple.

Now, Tony, when you said Mosman's not cheap, that's exactly one of the... it's just hit me that Mosman is known for its wealth and its wonderful things and all those great things. But what this is here, this is priceless.

You cannot put a dollar figure on it, because when it's gone, it's gone. And I think it's wonderful that we all walk around with T-shirts on and we're down with QR codes at Balmoral. It's all fantastic. But we really, I think, need to put together a dedicated, really serious campaign that shows action out there, because otherwise this will just get swept under the carpet.

And I think there's a real opportunity because this is the jewel in the crown. It's priceless. When it's gone, it's gone.

Tony Abbott

Completely correct. Completely correct. But look, as Jill L'Estrange pointed out, people power has won before and people power can win again. And when you've got someone like Paul Keating, not exactly one's usual political ally,as saying that this kind of thing is just bizarre and weird and wrong and disgraceful, I think we can be confident that what we are wanting to do is actually reflecting the overwhelming view of the Australian people.

Back to Question

And that's where the opportunity is. It's almost like. And so this doesn't have to be a workshop or whatever it is, but it's almost like, you know, two strong figureheads like you and Keating getting together [audience laughs and Tony Abbott says "you've got to draw the line somewhere"].

The reason you do it is because you've got to make an impact. You've got to move the needle. And we can all stand up and talk about all these great things, but we've got to make it really significant and do something that's memorable.

Statement from Jill (representing Zali Steggal)

Thank you, and thanks for letting me speak. I appreciate that. And I don't really want to take up too much time. I asked the team to give me a brief note of what Zali had done, and I got all this, but I promise I won't read it all to you. I was inspired by the military gentleman. My father was a 32 year Royal Navy man, so the spirit of the military is within.

So I do understand. And I was heartened also to hear Jill's comments and previously Felicity's comments that this must be a bipartisan fight. And we completely agree with that. One of the things I did just want to point out, to pick up on some of the questions that are being raised, we have put in a Freedom of Information request on environmental and heritage assessments from government.

We have also asked for a cost of benefits analysis from Defence. If they say that they have to sell this off for budgetary reasons, will tell us what those reasons are. And also last week or the week before, Zali all picked up on the point that many of the speakers have made tonight in a question to the Prime Minister in question time, picking up on that very fact that wasn't it only recently that he did in fact support keeping HMAS Penguin.

So we have a survey out in the community. Please respond to it. We've had 220 responses today. We are listening. Zali has already. We were talking about going from defence into Finance. Zali has already met with Minister Gallagher, the Finance Minister, about HMAS Penguin, and asked again that Finance also listens to what the community is saying.

So thank you for your indulgence. Please feel. Please feel free to contact the office with any more questions. Thank you.

Question 

Thank you. I just have a question following on from Zali's representatives. Being here tonight and just there's a preamble that I just want to say it absolutely horrifies me that we have three people in charge of decisions like this in our country who have no interest in the values of the country, what it means to be part of Australia, what's important to us, their heritage, all the things that we just hold dear to our heart.

I think they just don't care. They're just dangerous. We all need to go home from here tonight and for weeks and whatever and make sure we just remain angry, noisy and don't just go home and say, oh, well, it's a bad idea and one day it just all goes. You have to be strong and don't take rubbish from them.

The thing I just wanted to ask the question though from Zali's representatives is would they give us an undertaking tonight at this meeting that Zali will not support this sale of or loss of HMAS Penguin and the other sites as well and undertaken now? Thank you.

Jill (representative for Zali Stegall)

The Answer is yes. And Zali's default position has been that this land should remain in public hands and it should not be sold. That is her default position. She's argued it in the house and she continues to argue it. So yes, you have our word that we will go back and you will hear that constantly, continually.

Question

My question is a very quick one and it's to the Zali team over there. Every day I drive from my house just up the road here to North Sydney and I'll see a sign at the Orpheum Theatre saying 'Zali Stegall Serving the community'. How is asking to have a low cost housing down the road here serving the community?

Question

Tony, have you connected with the indigenous people of the land?

I'm sure that they would want to join you to protect their own land too. So we need all the help we can get.

Tony Abbott

Look, that's a very fair point. No, I haven't, but I think that is a fair point. So well said for raising.

Roy Bendall

All right, I've got one question, Tony. Thank you for indulging me. When you establish a trust [SHFT], do you think there's any. I mean, you help fund it, you help get the whole thing going to, you know, for everyone's benefit. That was in reaction to a divestment in land which I think is some sort of, you know, fake speech.

But, is there any impediment for the divestment in land to just transfer that into, into the trust that was established?

Tony Abbott

Look, if the federal government is going to do anything other than maintain the land as the existing military installation that it is, yes, it should go into the hands of the Sydney Harbour Federation Trust which was established as a result of the collective action of this and other parts of Sydney in response to the former labor government's initial decision to sell it all off.

I mean, the Howard government rescinded that decision and put close to $200 million into the establishment of the Sydney Harbour Federation Trust. I don't think everyone in treasury was that keen on it. But the then local member didn't just ask questions, didn't just have a default position, had an absolute indefatigable intention and declaration that it couldn't happen, it couldn't happen.

And so look, you know, in the end, the federal government can do what the federal government is entitled to do under the Constitution. The question is, you need a federal government that doesn't do stupid things, that doesn't do things that cannot be replaced. And as we say, once it's gone, it's gone forever.

So it should never, ever, ever be gone.

Question

Tony, thanks for turning up tonight. It's great to see you talking to us all and sharing. Coming back to what one of the speakers in the audience was saying about how do we rattle the cage? What next? Is it some sort of gathering?

Someone was talking about 200 people on Balmoral. How can we do something like that? You've got a thought on that, please?

Tony Abbott

Well, look, I think maybe, and here's a thought you're asking me to. Is it worth thinking on my feet? What about a human chain around HMAS Penguin? I mean, I reckon that would be a really good thing to do. Maybe one Sunday morning there could be a walk along Balmoral and then a human chain as an indication to the people in Canberra that, I'm sorry, this land is defended.

It is defended and you've got to come through us to get to it.

Question

We've got a lot of wonderful intentions tonight. A lot of wonderful intentions tonight. The big problem that I foresee in the entire picture is it's very fragmented now. I don't think this is going to go anywhere in today's world without a committee being formed with a central leadership. And I'm not necessarily putting Tony up to lead that.

He's a very busy man elsewhere. But what we've got is Sydney Harbour Federation Trust. We've got National Parks are joining it.

Tony Abbott

We've got the Headland Preservation Group.

Question

And what we don't have is any form of coordinated leadership leading this challenge to a corrupt labor government. Now think about it. This is very much in line with some of the comments that have been made here tonight. A committee needs to be formed, I suggest of all of these related parties and a proper strategy put in place to pursue all of the ideals that have been spoken about tonight.

That's number one. Very quickly I'd like to ask Tony, what was the strategy that worked so successfully in the two previous challenges? We should look at that very closely because it's history and it did work. My third and last point, and I'll finish this up. Is it possible to mount a legal challenge?

Okay. Is it possible to challenge this on a constitutional basis? I'll leave it there. Thank you.

Tony Abbott 

Look, the great thing about putting a few hundred people together in a room like this is a lot of good ideas come up and I think there were some excellent thoughts in that contribution. Look, yeah, I think we can make contact with the people who are trying to defend Victoria Barracks. We can make contact with the people who are trying to defend defence sites all around Australia.

I'm sure, Jess, you can help us a lot in those terms. Because in the end, if this is not just the people of Mosman saying no, but it's the people of the eastern suburbs, if it's the people of Tasmania, if it's the people of Western Australia all saying no, well then even the most arrogant government really does have to listen.

Jill L'Estrange

I'd like everyone to be rest assured that as far as the Headland Preservation Group is concerned, this is the beginning of the campaign. I received yesterday 11 pages of our roadmap going forward and there's no doubt at the end of it we'll be looking to you all to join us to protest.

To protest for what we need to save. It's so important to us all. So watch this space and we hope that we can bring you all together on our journey because it's so important to the people of this nation to save this site.

Tony Abbott

Let's have one or two last contributions and then we might I suppose put a resolution to this gathering that this gathering and by extension the people of Mosman are resolutely opposed to any sell off under any circumstances of HMAS Penguin.

Audience question/statement

Okay, final fellow speakers, then I'll just one if I may. That's just a suggestion and then a question, a very obvious solution to this. And this is Penguin and Victoria Barracks where I've served three times in posting. I have a suggestion followed by a question. Having served three times at first Victoria Barracks as a regular army infantry officer and a unit in Middle Head and the responsible for the whole upgrade of the Mosman War Memorial, I make a very simple suggestion to help Penguin and Victoria Barracks where I'm also an honorary member and have been for some years since I left.

Why not get people out of that office building in Defence Plaza and relocate them to Victoria Barracks in Penguin. That is the obvious solution. In the 1980s we had headquarters Training Command. We had the headquarters of Training Command in the Remington building in Oxford Street. Ludicrous rents out of the. Out of the earth.

They then moved to the old rack school up here at George's Head. George's Heights Very successfully. Just move the unit, Just move the defence people out of the Plaza in the Victoria Barracks. It's just obvious, I tell you.

Tony Abbott

There's a lot of sense in these old soldiers, isn't there? Well said.

Audience Audience question/statement

They can still fight, Tony. They can still fight, unfortunately, mostly with words these days, which usually are pretty useless, but, please, that's. I'm only talking about Penguin and Victoria Barracks. You'll save the money, you'll save your heritage totally. Your green space, which the military have always looked after. You have that whole history here. Get him out of the building. In the middle of dead right, pull out Defence Plaza and question is, get somebody to do it.

And if you ask the soldiers, would they rather be in Victoria Barracks or Headquarters Training Command at George's Heights or some soulless high rise. I know what they want. Former militia.

Audience question/statement

Just a quick suggestion. Just a quick suggestion to the representative of the mayor here. We need a physical focus. Can Mosman Council give us an office or two and desks and support so that people can get together and start and it becomes the physical centre of activity?

—- END —-